Not Real Art

What sets professional artists apart from amateurs? 10,000 hours of practice is the common rule of thumb, popularized by author Malcolm Gladwell in his bestseller Outliers: The Story of Success. Today’s guest, multidisciplinary artist Tm Gratkowski, believes that 10,000 hours is the minimum when it comes to achieving creative mastery.On today’s podcast episode, host and NOT REAL ART founder Scott “Sourdough” Power sits down with Tm to discuss the Chicago artist’s commitment to mastering multiple creative skill sets within his artistic practice. “I always say that 10,000 hours is for amateurs,” he tells Scott early in the interview. “It’s just the beginning. You've got to multiply that by 10 if you're ever going to get to a level that it’s in your interest to aspire to.”Working as an architect and art framer, Tm, like many successful contemporary artists, supports himself with a diverse range of services. In his studio practice, he uses paper to create large and small-scale sculptures, collages, and even insta

Creativity doesn’t exist in a vacuum. Even solo artists draw inspiration from the people, places, and artworks that most affect them. In a performance-oriented industry like music, comedy, or theater, embracing the power of collaboration can yield unexpected artistic highs for everyone involved. Our guest today, comedian Zach Zucker, is a living example of the incredible things creative collaboration can bring. As the creator of Stamptown, an award-winning production company that creates and tours with original comedy and musical acts, Zach collaborates with countless artists and facilitates performances all over the world. “I want to learn from the best at all times,” he says. “And just constantly get my mind blown and see how much more there is out there and how much I can aspire to achieve.”On today’s podcast episode, host Scott “Sourdough” Power sits down with Zach to discuss the comedian’s background in athletics and how the virtues he learned—discipline, teamwork, and humility—helped him navigate h

On today’s podcast episode, we attempt to answer a deceptively simple but critical question: Why do we make art? The answer, it turns out, is different for everyone.“The way I see it, there are three basic reasons why anyone makes art,” says NOT REAL ART founder and podcast host Scott “Sourdough” Power. “Number one, some people make art just for fun. Other reasons people make art, money, they want to make money. The last reason I think artists make art is that many artists want to make history.”By outlining three basic approaches to art-making, this episode encourages listeners to define their motivations in concrete terms. Do you want to go down in history as an influential artist? Do you simply have mouths to feed and bills to pay? Or are your creative pursuits purely for joy and personal fulfillment? Maybe it’s a little bit from all three categories. “The answer to those questions really dictates the kinds of decisions you make for your career and for your business moving forward,” Scott says. “It will rea

What role does public art play in our communities? And how has it changed across human history? From England’s prehistoric Stonehenge to Anish Kapoor’s Cloud Gate in Chicago, public art transforms landscapes, combats isolation, and reinvigorates cities and public spaces. Whether it provides space for sacred rituals or acts as a monument, public art has the power to spark conversations and deepen our sense of community.Today, we’re honored to welcome public art enthusiast Badir McCleary back to the podcast. On a special bonus episode, NOT REAL ART founder and host Scott “Sourdough” Power sits down with Badir to discuss Remote, the filmmaker’s ongoing video series on the power of public art. “With public art, people feel like it's theirs, especially as a taxpayer in America,” says Badir, who treks to a different location—sometimes two or three—for each episode. “In a public space, you're like, ‘Yeah, I've put at least some money into this. I can get a little bit closer.’ And I think that's what's needed. People

Step aside, digital design, and make way for the magic of hand-crafted signage. On today’s podcast episode, host and NOT REAL ART founder Scott “Sourdough” Power sits down with Chicago-based sign painter Ches Perry to discuss the timeless allure of hand-made art. “Never dreamt I'd be painting signs for the rest of my life,” says Ches, who wanted to be a commercial artist growing up. “But I loved that. That was the weird thing. Right from the beginning, I just loved sitting there all day long and practicing my lettering.”A true master of the craft, Ches trained at the Institute of Lettering and Design before opening Rightway Signs, a Chicago-based company that specializes in hand-painted designs. Ches and his team aren’t confined to hand-painted lettering, though; their expertise covers digital design, murals, neon, and eye-catching rooftop signage. “Whether you're on the side of a roof, or wherever, you're by yourself,” says Ches, who revels in the solitary life of a sign painter. “I think most artists a

For artists and entrepreneurs, risk comes with the territory. Today’s guest, Los Angeles artist Tomer Peretz, embraces uncertainty in his career by making as many gaffes, blunders, and flubs as possible. “We [make] a lot of bad choices,” says Tomer, whose iconic “Bad Choices” t-shirt is emblematic of his philosophy on art: Make lots of mistakes. On today’s podcast episode, host and NOT REAL ART founder Scott “Sourdough” Power sits down with Tomer Peretz to discuss the Israeli artist’s now-thriving practice and the risks it took to get there. “I intend to [make] mistakes,” he says. “Sometimes, it works and turns into a great choice. But sometimes it stays as a bad choice. In this case, in [some of my riskier] creations, I thought, ‘I'm ruining my entire relationship and my entire career,’ and it actually turned into a really good thing for me.” Before landing in L.A. to start his art career, Tomer served in the Israeli military and backpacked across South America. His practice, inspired by travel, st

Welcome back to the Laugh Gallery as we continue to bring you brilliant comedy sets from our recent 420 event. Adam Barnhardt is on the mic today, and his impeccable timing and transcendental characterization earn him the title of a true comedic genius! After our hosts break the ice with some amusing country song titles and lyrics, Adam takes the stage to talk about how strange life is in L.A., with anecdotes of owning a dog, the hypocrisy of “woke,” the inconvenience of COVID, and the freaks that exist in every corner of L.A. Adam also reminds us to stop being assholes as he explains why he’s letting go is his resting oh-my-fucking-god face, and why using drugs is still a bad idea. Tune in now to find out why homelessness is freedom, how laughter is medicine, why angry people are easier to trust, and why not all gay people are the same. Adam is a very physical comedian, so his jokes might be a little strange to listen to without the visuals, so be sure to head over to our YouTube channel for the full experie

Happy Halloween, trick-or-treaters! Grab some candy corn, a mug of hot cider, and a blanket—it’s time for our third and final art world horror story of the year. Produced by NOT REAL ART parent company Crewest Studio, Art World Horror Stories is a podcast series about bad things that happen to good artists. On today’s podcast episode, host and NOT REAL ART founder Scott “Sourdough” Power shares some spine-tingling anecdotes from his personal collection of art world horror stories. Rather than indulging every screwup and screw over from his 30-year career in the arts, Scott distills the horror into five practical tips for artists at every stage of their careers. “One of the lessons I've learned over 30 years in the art world, working with artists and doing projects with clients, is that poor negotiation skills result in bad deals,” he says. “Get that signed contract. You will live a happier, healthier life, not horrified and mortified by art world shenanigans.”Tuning in, you’ll learn about the value of co

Halloween is just around the corner, which means spooky season is alive and well at NOT REAL ART. To get listeners into the spirit, we’ve got another episode of Art World Horror Stories on deck this week. If you missed last week’s episode with muralist Amandalynn, head there now to hear about her terrifying fall from high-rise scaffolding and the slow but steady recovery process that followed. On today’s episode, host and NOT REAL ART founder Scott “Sourdough” Power sits down with longtime friend and close collaborator Man One to discuss the graffiti artist’s disastrous mural project for the Center for Disease Control (CDC). “This is one of those stories where it just keeps getting worse and worse and worse,” says Man One, an LA-based illustrator, curator, and entrepreneur who’s been an active member of the art world for 20 years. “I'm going to forewarn you, this horror story gets worse!”From racial slurs and defamation to vandalism and cease and desist letters, the project was plagued by obstacles from

Being a muralist is risky. From balancing on high-rise scaffolding to navigating busy public spaces, beautifying building facades comes with its own set of liabilities. There’s an art to recognizing potential hazards and putting necessary precautions in place, but unfortunately, accidents are bound to happen. On today’s podcast episode, Scott “Sourdough” Power sits down with muralist Amandalynn to discuss the artist’s unexpected fall from a scaffold earlier this year. Based in North Carolina, Amandalynn is a conservator and art director whose large-scale murals steep cities in lush botanicals and feminine magic, providing a brief escape from crude, masculine architecture and urban anxiety.In March 2023, Amandalynn plummeted from the security of her painting scaffold while working on a client’s ceiling. “The first thing I thought when I opened my eyes was, ‘Why is there paint all over [my client’s] books?’” she tells Scott. “I wasn't comprehending why I was looking at books. Then I tried to move and reali

Where you grow up can have a huge influence on you, from the friends you make to the schools you attend. And while it’s not always recognized as such, Montreal is a uniquely vibrant and diverse city, with exceptionally high rates of integration that set it apart from other cosmopolitan areas like New York and Los Angeles, both of which are home to diverse communities, but still contend with high levels of segregation.Today we are joined by Ric'key Pageot, an accomplished LA-based musician and Steinway Artist who has played piano and accordion for the likes of Diana Ross, Madonna, Cher, Dr. John, and many more. In this conversation, we talk with Ric'key about his upbringing in Montreal, how it exposed him to different cultures, why he was set on attending McGill University, and how his career has unfolded since. He describes what it was like growing up in a family filled with talented musicians — and the various concerts they held — before reflecting on his time at McGill and how it prepared him for life as a

Does the name Keith Haring ring any bells? How about Jean-Michel Basquiat? In the 1980s, New York was home to some of the art world’s biggest celebrities. But what does this iconic era look like from the perspective of someone who never “made it”?On today’s podcast episode, host and NOT REAL ART founder Scott “Sourdough” Power sits down with Brian Vincent and Heather Spore to discuss the duo’s latest documentary, Make Me Famous. Directed and edited by Brian and produced by Heather, the film follows the rise and fall of the East Village art scene from the unlikely perspective of Edward Brezinski, a decidedly un-famous neo-expressionist painter who worked alongside Keith Haring and Jean-Michel Basquiat but never quite reached the same levels of success.“[There] was a duality that [artists like Edward Brezinski] had,” says Brian. “They both wanted to be famous and they also didn’t want to look like they were selling out.” “We live in a world where money is so lifted up,” adds Heather. “You’re successful bec

Yesterday, we published our first photo essay on ICONS: A Conversation with Legendary Graffiti Artists Prime and Man One. Moderated by NOT REAL ART founder Scott “Sourdough” Power, the conversation between legendary L.A. graffiti artists Prime and Jose “Prime” Reza unfolded at Helms Bakery District in Culver City, CA, as part of the traveling exhibition Close to the Edge: The Birth of Hip-Hop Architecture. On today’s podcast episode, we present the entire conversation between Scott, Prime, and Man One during the ICONS event on Sept. 15, 2023. The three longtime friends chat about the birth and evolution of graffiti in L.A., supplementing the conversation with personal stories about their experiences in the scene. “[Graffiti] has gotten a lot more attention as an art form,” says Jose “Prime” Reza, who flooded the gallery walls of Close to the Edge with his distinct hybrid of Cholo lettering and East Coast-style writing. “[Cholo writing was] my stepping stone into the arts,” he tells Scott. “It has opened

Shifting gears into an art career can be an exhilarating but challenging task. While passion is a plus, this transition also demands discipline, hard work, and the right kind of encouragement from those around you. For Miles Regis, everything fell into place once the hard-working L.A. artist found support among a steadily growing roster of clients and collectors.On today’s podcast, host and NOT REAL ART founder Scott “Sourdough” Power sits down with Miles to discuss the painter’s path from entertainment executive to full-time artist at age 40. “A lot of my early collectors were actors and actresses, celebrities,” he says. “It was then a little bit easier for me to jump ship and become a full-time artist. I was actually encouraged by a few of my collectors to do it…that encouragement helped me make the leap.”Miles’ story may highlight the importance of community, but the Trinidad-born artist stresses that success takes more than famous friends and collectors with deep pockets. “It doesn't matter what you do,”

If you’re a longtime listener of our podcast, you already know NOT REAL ART strives to make art accessible to everyone—not just a privileged few. Today’s guest shares a similar mission: As the co-founder of UNREPD, a cutting-edge L.A. gallery that seeks to represent the underrepresented, Sarah Griffin offers a safe space for artists to sell their work without the pretense that comes with typical “white cube” galleries. “As long as we're doing what feels great, what we like, what we're excited about, that's how we stay on the right path,” she says. In today’s podcast episode, host and NOT REAL ART founder Scott “Sourdough” Power sits down with Sarah Griffin to discuss the consultant’s ongoing work with marginalized artists and communities. “People have been told that there's a ‘right’ way to do [art],” she says. “Somewhere along the line, people are told that there's a way to make real art. There's a way to make good art. There's a way to look at art. There's a way to understand art. This is what you're s

If you’ve spent any time in Los Angeles, you’re probably familiar with WRDSMTH. The street artist’s iconic stencil of a typewriter cranking out pages of inspirational text is almost as ubiquitous as the city’s traffic.In today’s podcast episode, host and NOT REAL ART founder Scott “Sourdough” Power sits down with WRDSMITH (aka Phil Brody) to discuss the artist’s unconventional path from Midwestern bookworm to renowned writer and street artist. “I was being creative from when I was a comic book kid,” says WRDSMTH, who initially relocated to L.A. to chase his screenwriting dreams. “When you look at who I am now and what I'm doing now, it just all made sense, all these little stops and starts and different lives that I had.”Realizing he needed a hobby when he arrived in L.A., WRDSMTH took to the streets and began stenciling, painting, and wheat-pasting his heart out. And the rest, as they say, is history. Today, his work resonates with city dwellers from L.A. and New York to Melbourne and Tokyo. “I always believ

If you start an art publication from scratch with virtually no capital, prepare to get creative with your time and resources. Today’s guest, Victor Gonzalez, founded GRØSS Magazine fresh out of college with a gleam in his eye and few assets to his name. Fast forward seven years, and the once wobbly publication has blossomed into Grøss Creative Studio, a thriving media company also known as the GCS Agency. “Coming into print publishing with very shallow pockets—it really made me resourceful,” says Victor,  who also heads GRØSS as the editor in chief. “I had to lean into that quality. I think that quality has always been instilled in me because I'm the product of immigrant parents, who were just always resourceful, trying to find their own way, trying to do the most with what they had, and figure out ways to stretch their resources, whether it was money or any kind of resource.”The GCS brand currently houses two initiatives. There’s GRØSS, a contemporary art platform focused on creating space for crea

Remote, Badir McCleary’s video series on public art, opens with an ambitious statement from the L.A.-based filmmaker: “In a world full of vibrant creativity and captivating stories, there are secrets waiting to be uncovered. From towering sculptures to interactive murals, each stroke and structure is a testament to the boundless imagination of artists who dared to dream big.”Created in partnership with NOT REAL ART, Remote transports viewers to hidden corners of the globe, where public art ignites conversation, breathes life into forgotten neighborhoods, and transforms entire cities into living galleries. On today’s podcast episode, host and NOT REAL ART founder Scott “Sourdough” Power sits down with longtime friend and collaborator Badir Mcleary to discuss the filmmaker’s interest in public art as a force for radical change.“Public art was a great topic for this project,” Badir tells Scott. “You don't have to worry about galleries closing. People can easily access what we're talking about. It makes everyone

As you read this sentence, Black Rock City is preparing to welcome Burners home for another year of jaw-dropping art and all-night dancing in the desert. That’s right, Burning Man 2023 is upon us! To celebrate, we’ve invited one of the most talented artists on the playa to chat about his annual contribution to the festivities—an artist so gifted that he, like Cher, only needs one name: Alice, mirror artist.On today’s podcast episode, host and NOT REAL ART founder Scott “Sourdough” Power sits down with Alice to discuss the artist’s dream-inspired mirror sculptures. “I find a lot of inspiration for my own art in [my] dreams,” he says. “When you're patient, quiet, and attentive, then the dream will show you what you need to know.” Based in Orange County, Alice first became interested in art as a child. While his formal education centers on automotive technology and music, Alice has a talent for what he calls “weird art”: large-scale, kaleidoscopic mirror sculptures that transport viewers into the fourth dim

We are back with more Comedy 420 from the hilarious Terrence DeLane, a stand-up comedian for the past eight years, who has recently expanded his repertoire by incorporating acting into his resume. We start the show debating sourdough best practices, and Scott explains what makes San Francisco sourdough bread different before diving into Terrence’s set at The Comedy Chateau. Get ready for a side-splitting stand-up comedy show with Terrence as he fearlessly tackles the treacherous terrain of relationship status updates in the world of social media, and unveils the surprising secrets behind his use of Spanish while charming women. Hear about the humorous hurdles he encounters in interracial relationships, including the nerve-wracking ordeal of meeting the parents. Laugh along as Terrence shares his epic tale of getting hit by a car as a fully grown adult and masterfully playing it cool, the complexities of dating a Latino man, his experiences of solo high moments, creating vision boards, and much more! Tune in f